Is WiFi Bad for you?

[FroZone]

Did anyone see that article in the Guardian online magazine (http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2064189,00.html)last week where the Professional Association of Teachers called for the stop of installing Wi-Fi Networks in or around schools until a scientific inquiry can determine if there are any potential health risks associated with Wi-Fi networks.

This is probably in the same category as global warming however in this case there have been studies who's research recommended (http://www.hpa.org.uk/hpa/news/nrpb_archive/press_releases/2005/press_release_02_05.htm)that "additional research should go into how best to minimise exposure of potentially vulnerable sub-groups such as children and to consider the possibility that there may be other sub-groups who may be particularly sensitive to radiowaves."

That might merit further research :rolleyes:

Oh and... great idea for a forum! Looking forward to chatting off the record :D

[ECGriffith]

I've yet to see scientific research that proves Wi-Fi is dangerous. Why the UK is suddenly the hotbed of people freaking out over Wi-Fi -- a tech with incredibly low power radio wave -- I dunno. With a few million wi-fi units sold, why are people only sick in England? That's not to say that further research shouldn't take place, and it does, on everything. But no real proof yet.

[M/Q]

Very interesting topic and this subject has been somewhat of a concern of mine for many years. Being an amateur radio operator for over 45 years, I have been exposed to RF in greater quantity than most people or so I thought.

The people raising the flag about WiFi RF would be totally freaked out if they had access to a broadband spectrum analyzer and saw the evidence of all the RF and EMF that is affecting them on a daily basis. So in any kind of debate about physical or mental harm from RF, singling out WiFi technology is not logical.

My concern of late comes from the fact that the frequency of RF enveloping us today is much higher and has more energy. Thus, in my opinion it is not a fair comparison to compare the WiFi equipment even with mobile phone technology as WiFi frequencies are double or triple that of mobile phones, hence more energy. Granted the actual EIRP is less, but the technology is still too new to determine if there are any long term affects. So, in my world it has much more to do with frequency and absorbed energy and not the actual technology.

One should ask those teachers if there are any other types of RF emitters at their schools such as sat comms, local government mobile technology, any other ISM band RF (ie microwave ovens). They should be concerned about all of those, not just WiFi equipment.

[Planet]

Intresting subject indeed. All though the research done to support the current discussions around this subject are nearly a decade old, this Flash movie (http://www.hpa.org.uk/radiation/understand/at_a_glance/radiowaves/radiowaves.htm)makes for an interesting read however it doesnt actually list "WiFi".

[joshb14]

Very informative thread.

If Wifi doesn't affects us adults that much, how about babies? do you think is it okay to put Wifi in hospitals or pre-schools?

[Planet]

I suppose there is no existing way to know the answer to that question for certain. Kind of like global warming and the increase in cancer rates.
If there was a way to shut off all man-made RF around the world, I wonder if anyone would notice a difference. Physiologically I mean. According to this women (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=450995&in_page_id=1879) it would. I read this article (http://www.newstarget.com/022015.html) a while ago however it discusses the effects of high energy radiation on organic material. Very interesting indeed. I also highly recommend checking out the rest of that site for an unbiased look at the true state of affairs in regards to human health in general.

[vox126]

Until the final results are in, I'll be sure to keep my laptop off my lap.

[Planet]

I was about to comment on that French video floating around the Internet showing 4 cell phones popping a few kernels of pop-corn, which of coarse is a hoax, never the less, that mindset seems to prevail.

[JPnyc]

Has to be better than smoking and eating fried foods.

[golfnut]

Correlation does not imply causation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Greg

[dylanyah]

Hmm well then i`m screwed since everywhere i am (work, home, etc) has wifi but after reading that one story with the women- isn`t the mind once thinking that say you have a condition your mind just makes you think that you have it maybe she just has headaches due to cells since sometimes i get a quick headache when someones txts me only for a sec though.

[ad5mb]

http://www.tikirobot.net/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/wellington.png

for the geekish:

your microwave is an odd multiple of a quarter wavelength deep. No voltage at those depths. in theory.

If you are a G-HOG - a gray-haired old geezer - you will remember when microwaves had RF seals. Now they don't because of the 1/4 wavelength thing.

I have access to spectrum analyzers. I have compared the output of wireless routers to a modern microwave. I won't be in the same room as a running microwave oven.

[re-innovations]

I'm a Wireless Program Manager for a large Health Care orginization. I have been tasked with providing over 60 hospital facilities with wall to wall 802.11 a,b,g,n voice and data coverage.
I have been asked this same question by the elevator safety board, is this (WiFi) dangerous to humans. I have tons of white papers that shows the impact of the wavelengths and over 4million sqft of lanplanner and airmagnet readings.
Some people are so ignorant.

[Planet]

I have access to spectrum analyzers. I have compared the output of wireless routers to a modern microwave. I won't be in the same room as a running microwave oven.
Makes me think about all those men and women on navy ships and even those in military airplanes. Considering the amount of communication antennas, command and control dishes, surveillance equipment, fire control radars, navigation radars and whatever else, those folks must be bombarded with hazardous microwave energy for weeks and months at a time. I don't think anyone has done an in-depth study on the topic since the 60's! :o

[LocTheToker]

I seriously doubt that your average 802.11 B/G users have anything to worry about i.e. low mH radios with 2 db antennas are fine even if there was 100 of them in one room.

However, many users on this site can probably boast a much better hardware configuration that that. Mine for example is about a 200 mH radio low by many users standards and very low in comparison to many comercial aplications such as ones undertaken by many ISP's. Combine a radio such as mine(or even one much stronger) with a high db antenna and maybe even a gain booster and your wave has much higher voltage than what is typical. Also with most types of high power antennas your going to have a beam that is much more focussed that the 2db omni that came on your 11mH dlink :D

Now im certainly no physicist(had to google spelling). In fact most of what I know about electromagnetic waves is from people of higher education who take there time to post and enlighten those who are hungry for knowledge.

With that said I think its a fair assumtion that these high powered waves could be dangerous even if they are not over 20 db
I agree that more testing is available as I could find almost nothing in the published databases my university subscribes to.

Also N type antennas provide more questions in the area of safety than they do answers. N type uses 5GHz which untill now has been more typical of point to point relay type of connections.

It roughly double the frequency bringing much closer to the microwave which is if im not mistaken roughly 10^10 or 10GHz

The question is certainly food for though....

[tuomo]

One way to look at this is in the healthcare space. If Wi-Fi is bad for you, why are so many healthcare device manufacturers putting Wi-Fi into all sorts of patient care devices. They ( the mfgs ) undergo a lot of scrutiny through FDA etc. and would not do this if there was proof of Wi-Fi being dangerous.

-T

[Planet]

I suppose if you were to make that argument then you would have to ask, why are Cigarettes, Fried foods, and Alcohol all still available for consumption. Just because the FDA or any other organization "approves" something as "safe", one should not assume that it is OK for you to use it. In more cases then I care to believe, the word "safe" should be replaced by the word "profitable" and then you might have what you need to make an informed decision. :rolleyes:

[Alan87i]

Both my self and a good friend cannot sit in a room for long with in 10 feet of a linksys or similar "power wise" wifi device with out getting this burning sensation in the eyes!

[Planet]

Have you ever eaten microwaved food, or been within 10 feet of an active microwave oven?

[Alan87i]

Some Microwave ovens do bother me when I'm close and they are running. The one I own does not unless I'm with in a few feet of it. Again it has to be running and for a while maybe 1/2 hour or so.
My own access point is mounted high on the wall and a good 10 feet away from the computer.

[Planet]

You can Google the term, "Are Microwave ovens bad for you? (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=are+microwave+ovens+bad+for+you%3F&btnG=Search)" and come up with over 500,000 hits. One of the most compelling articles (http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards.htm) is what got me to ditch my microwave and live without the convenience. Simply put, I don't want to die a slow death.

[Alan87i]

WOW that's an eye opener !!
Just thinking about all the fast food joints in the world , and almost everything served hot is microwaved.

[Planet]

Makes you wonder when the evidence is so compelling, why our health is sacrificed over profit every time.

[TechGeek25]

This has been on my mind for some time now. I've heard things back and forth, but I truly don't think that there is anything that we really really really need to worry about for our health, unless you're putting an access point right next to your head as a pillow.

Some say it might be causing us to die slowly, but then again what isn't? If you consume fried foods, alcohol, etc., isn't that all bad for you? I do believe that we should watch what we do, but I too believe that Americans sometimes look into things way too much.

[Planet]

I don't know that this is an "American" issue per say and while I do believe that to much of anything is ever a good thing, I still think its a good idea to limit your exposure to any type of radiation, regardless if the harmful effects have been proven or not.

[TechGeek25]

Of course I agree with you there...too much of a good thing can be bad, such as fruits. But I really do believe that we are okay, just as long as we don't expose ourselves to too much rf, etc.

What schools have banned the use of Wi-Fi? Are the schools in the US, UK, etc?