Rural Long Range Wireless

[blueblinds]

I am pretty new to the wireless revoultion, but have a little expieriece in an office setting. I have read extensively on this message board but I still would like a quailifed opinion.
I want to set up a wireless bridge between two houses one half mile apart. The houses are on the same elevation across an open field. There are a few scattered trees, but they are sparse. One house has satellite internet that I want to share. The two rooms face each other across the field.
What are your opinions on the best hardware? Of course, the cheaper the better (my budget is only $100). Also, I would like to not use high gain atennas that I have to mount on the exterior of the houses. I was wondering if two wireless routers are the way to go? Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated.

[M/Q]

First, you can not use two wireless routers. You need to use two access point in Point to Point mode.

Next there is no way I would try this link without additional external antennas. IMO they need to be in the 10-12dBi range. Now whether you have them outside or in a window facing each other that is up to you. I would have them outside at a reasonable height so that they would not have anything physically blocking them, especially trees.

As for actual devices, you are going to have to figure that out as most access points times two would be over $100US.

[FlaWireless]

The MOD is on top of this one for sure.

[umdivx]

Actually he could use two wireless routers, but ones that can run open source firmeware like the WRT54g. With dd-wrt firmware you can run the wireless routers in WDS mode which will do point to point, point to multi point all in one radio, I currently do this now.

With about $150 you can do this easily.

Get two of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833162134

I am partial to the buffalo's becuase they are cheap, and can run dd-wrt firmware (see www.dd-wrt.com for more info)

get two cables: RP-SMA to N Male
http://sharperconcepts.zoovy.com/product/YSC-CA-RSPNMEXXX 10 or 20 footers will do teh job.

then a set of these:
http://sharperconcepts.zoovy.com/product/YSC-HG2415G-NF

so all in all your lookin at around $250 - $300 but granted if you can find used WRT54g access points on ebay, same with the directional antennas you could get it closer to around $150.

- Josh

[M/Q]

Josh, we are wanting to be kind of careful on this forum as to telling members about the aftermarket firmware. I realize it does what you mentioned.

But there is a matter of being considered not certified by the FCC as it is not the original hardware/software combination that was tested to give the device its certification.

I have an insider at the FCC working on this as to determine their viewpoint on the legality of aftermarket firmware setup. It appears that it is not going to be considered a certified system. Now what that means is not known to me. But, since this forum tries at all cost to remain with in the eyes of the .govs all arond the world we should not publish anything other than what is considered certified by the authorities.

Unless, you know something I do not and if you do, I certainly would appreciate hearing about it. Getting detail from the FCC is akin to pulling teeth.

[umdivx]

So what about linux router box's like the Mikrotik setups? They are also not FCC certified yet many WISP's are going the route of the mikrotik setups.

Its a gray area becuase its software and not hardware changes being made. I thought hardware is was is being FCC certified and not the software?

- Josh

Josh, we are wanting to be kind of careful on this forum as to telling members about the aftermarket firmware. I realize it does what you mentioned.

But there is a matter of being considered not certified by the FCC as it is not the original hardware/software combination that was tested to give the device its certification.

I have an insider at the FCC working on this as to determine their viewpoint on the legality of aftermarket firmware setup. It appears that it is not going to be considered a certified system. Now what that means is not known to me. But, since this forum tries at all cost to remain with in the eyes of the .govs all arond the world we should not publish anything other than what is considered certified by the authorities.

Unless, you know something I do not and if you do, I certainly would appreciate hearing about it. Getting detail from the FCC is akin to pulling teeth.

[M/Q]

They go by systems. Officially a device as well as the cable and the antenna have to be certified as one. Next the firmware is considered a gray area as you said, but it has an impact on the quality of the signal. For example, if you overdrive a transmitter because the firmware allows it to, it is going to have spurious harmonics and that is not a good thing.

As I said, this is the area under advisement. I am getting signs that it might not fly for unlicensed ISM usage. Also WISP's are in a different catagory. The ones I work with typically develop a certain hardware/software/antenna package and then have it certified by the FCC if it already is not certified as a system by the vendor. It is an added cost, but it removes the possiblity of fines and license revocation.

I do not want to argue the merits as I think they are great myself. I just feel it is only being responsible as a forum to advertise information that we know for certain is correct and legal if you will.

I have asked on several forums as well as though the proper .gov channels and have not found or been given any evidence that it is OK regulation-wise. And I mentioned earlier that the FCC people I have initially talked to are of the frame of mind that it is not considered certified. Please prove me wrong, as I would like to see those aftermarket firmware products progress.

Anyway, let's not hijack this thread with a unsolvable debate at this time.

[PsychCom]

First, you can not use two wireless routers. You need to use two access point in Point to Point mode.

Next there is no way I would try this link without additional external antennas. IMO they need to be in the 10-12dBi range. Now whether you have them outside or in a window facing each other that is up to you. I would have them outside at a reasonable height so that they would not have anything physically blocking them, especially trees.

As for actual devices, you are going to have to figure that out as most access points times two would be over $100US.


I would not recommend putting any wifi antenna behind a window.
i work at a WISP in northern norway.
Here our experience is that a windows is the same as a floating object when it comes to wifi.
meaning that it will reflect signals in other directions than you want to.
it will also reduce the signal strength.
If this only applies to the "new" cind of double layer windows i dont know.
But my theory is that the material glass reflects and when you get a gas pocket between 2 windows you will increase the reflection becouse of temprature variations.

also i would recomend getting youreself external antennas.
or a "homebrew" setup were the AP is installed in the antenna. That way you just run power over ethernet to the antenna an minimize the cabel length and loss. these antennas can also be very small and painted in sutch a fasion that it wont stick too mutch out

[M/Q]

Interesting post PsychCom,

I tend to forget about the new windows that in many cases which have tint (typically some kind of a metallic substance) in them. That indeed does reflect RF. As for glass acting like a prism, I had not thought about that. But, if RF is indeed like light (according to modern day physicists) then you are correct. I tend to focus on water-bearing substances, wood in the walls or plaster on the walls. Which will absorb more RF than I personally have seen being distorted or reflected by windows. I will certainly keep this in mind and it is actually a great experiment.

I also agree with you about the antennas needing to be outside, but we try to accomodate the thread originator as much as possible. Thanks for posting.