Connecting WiFi between apt. floors, need your sage advice..am I a couk?

[codecx]

Okay, this is my first post. I've been lurking to see if I see anything with a similiar topic and I've come up dry.. so here goes.

In a month, I shall be moving into the same apartment building as my fiancee.

Her apartment is going to be 304, mine is going to be 709. There will be 4 floors between us and she will be at the back of the building, whereas I will be at the front.

I don't have dimensions or anything, but the building itself is longer than it is wide, if that helps any...there's only 2 sets of units in a straight line..
Back of building (even numbers)
[hall]
front of building (odd numbers)

We've tested out the strength of our routers before (both are MN-500 btw).. If I head down her building, I am able to connect all the way down the hallway, until i hit the elevators.. then it dies.. and then able to pick up the signal in the lobby, and outside.

When I move, I want to cancel her network access and have her use mine (Saving $50/mo for the wedding) ;) I'm extremely doubtful the signal will be able to carry through all that concrete, but curious about it, as we're able to drill the signal down to the lobby..(coming in through the windows??..not likely..)

I've been digging, I've found this:
http://flakey.info/antenna/omni/quarter/

Not sure if it will help, but it sure does look neat. I realise I'd have to buy new equipment for it to work, but I'm cool with that.

I've come to this forum to ask for advice..If anyone thinks it might be possible.. Would I be able to boost the signal to bust on through the solid building? If I got new routers s it possible to buy two new routers and amplify the signals on both, so the signal would be able to connect overtop of the building? .

...how about wifi over coax? since the entire building is already hooked up with live connections in each apartment.. http://www.smarthome.com/6404HK.html?

The price range is flexible.. I'm trying to keep cost as low as possible, but at the same time, I'm obviously not building a corporate infrastructure so lets try to keep it under $1000 ? :p & I say that just to hear the ideas proposed, (keep your minds open)

I need equipment options, price values and some good logical imagination ;)

And most of all... Thanks in advance!!

[M/Q]

The major problem you are going to run into is signal strength coupled with the fact that I bet there are several wireless networks between your two locations. And if any of them are on the same channel or nearby one they will appear stronger to the location that is nearer to them. That will cause all sorts of problems and erratic behavior. 802.11b/g has only three channels that are non-interfering and that is what makes it hard.

802.11a has many more available channels so that would give you a better chance to avoid the interference part, but it is at a much higher frequency (5gHz) and that makes it less likely to penetrate any significant physical interferences.

I would try it just cause I like to experiment, but I would be surprised if it worked well enough to prevent any irritation to you both.

So if you are a gambling man and want to try. You need two wireless devices most likely access points as wireless routers normally do not act as bridge clients and that what you will need.
Now there are some new devices from LinkSys and Belkin that are what is called Pre-N devices. They have speed and distance enhancing capabilities. The LinkSys devices are not able to bridge so you would need the Belkin wireless routers or access points, and both ends of the link need to be the same device. That does not eliminate the interference for other networks though. And as far as I know they are not setup for external antennas.

I might try two DLink access points

http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=326

With antennas like these pointed at each other, as they focus the energy instead of a omni directional pattern

http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=0&pid=53

Now that just takes care of the bridge link. You will need to run a Ethernet cable from the access point to her computer. Then on your end you need to run a Ethernet cable back to a switch or a built in switch of the device that gives you Internet access.

This is just one method to attempt this, I still would be very leery of this working because of what I mentioned above.

[codecx]

woo! Quick response, It brings me a little closer to what I'll need. Any costs for materials will be considered a future investment for when we have a permanent residence of a house, later in life. You can never have too much wireless stuff I say ;)

Any one ever see this auragrid (http://www.smarthome.com/6404HK.html?) product, that I mentioned?

[Phoenix]

This isn't Wi-Fi, but another thing you might try is powerline networking. If your two apartments share the same electrical transformer (which is the case for most apartment buildings) you can connect the two with powerline to Ethernet adapters. You could get a kit like this one: Powerline Networking Kit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833139119) for $60. You plug one into an outlet in your apartment and one in her apartment.

[M/Q]

Phoenix, you always have good ideas. I have never used that technology before. So, I hope you don't mind a few questions.

Is the transformer the only restriction to how far and where the signal will travel? The website mentions 300m. I also read about username/password and encryption, is that how they keep a secure link? What happens when someone else gets the same adapter and plugs it in?

[codecx]

This isn't Wi-Fi, but another thing you might try is powerline networking. If your two apartments share the same electrical transformer (which is the case for most apartment buildings) you can connect the two with powerline to Ethernet adapters. You could get a kit like this one: Powerline Networking Kit (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833139119) for $60. You plug one into an outlet in your apartment and one in her apartment.

I was entertaining that possibility as well, as it was mentioned to me on another forum (http://forums.redflagdeals.com) the prices I've seen were too high. This one is much more reasonable :)

I wish newegg was in canada! roar!!.. I'm sure i can find it though.

I've been poking around, and for wired solutions, the best rate of speed for wired LAN over coax is only 128kbit.. This LAN over electricity is about 14mbit, which is just a little quicker than her current 802.11b connection.

I'm wondering, if I purchased this "LAN over Power" solution and hooked the ethernet up to her router working in access point mode, would it broadcast my network that way?

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, you always have good ideas. I have never used that technology before. So, I hope you don't mind a few questions.

Is the transformer the only restriction to how far and where the signal will travel? The website mentions 300m. I also read about username/password and encryption, is that how they keep a secure link? What happens when someone else gets the same adapter and plugs it in?
They do have 56bit DES encryption built in and a default password (similar to a WEP key) of "HomePlug" that you should change to your own with the included software. Otherwise it would be just like bringing home a bunch of Wi-Fi gear and leaving everything set to the default: anybody and everybody could connect to your network.

The in-home equipment will go everywhere but through the transformer. 300m of wire length is kind of the max, but just like Wi-Fi there are lots of things that can make this distance less than 300m (i.e. noise on your powerlines).

By the way, there is equipment that will go through the transformer as well called broadband over powerline (BPL). It basically allows the electric company to become your ISP. It's being rolled out and tested in a couple of areas. See this newspaper article for more info on BPL: Power lines set to carry Internet to outlet near you (http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/03/02/biz_biz1acin.html)

[Phoenix]

I wish newegg was in canada! roar!!.. I'm sure i can find it though.
They also have these at amazon.com for a little bit more (I'm assuming amazon will ship to Canada). Best Buy down here in the US carries Netgear brand kits in the store for $100

I'm wondering, if I purchased this "LAN over Power" solution and hooked the ethernet up to her router working in access point mode, would it broadcast my network that way?
As far as her router is concerned it will not even know the powerline bridge is connected. It would "think" it is connected directly to yours via an Ethernet cable. You just have to set her router up as if it was a second router in a network (There are TONS of threads on this forum on how to do that).

[M/Q]

BPL scares me as an amateur radio operator. It appears that it will affect most of our HF bands to a point where it will disallow useable comms.

If you are at all interested here is a link that addresses our concerns.

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/

[Phoenix]

The BPL that is being deployed in the US uses the same HomePlug chips (with different line drivers) as the in-home equipment. So there are frequencies that are notched out to avoid interference with amateur radio (as stated in the article that you linked). There is a competitor, DS2, that is doing a lot of BPL in Europe (especially in Spain where they are located) that does not do this. That is probably what the organizers of this group are protesting against. HomePlug was only recently rolled out for BPL applications. As the distinctions between HomePlug technology and other BPL technologies becomes more well known, the opposition will slow down.

[M/Q]

Thank you for pointing that out. I did not understand that aspect of it. I sincerely hope you are correct as it will be a huge relief. Otherwise a vast majority of my antennas and equipment will be worthless.

[codecx]

Update:

So I decided to take her laptop and go down to the 4th floor.

[ * ][ * ][405]
[409][ * ][ * ]
====
====
====
[ * ][ * ][ * ]
[709][ * ][ * ]

Here's roughly the path that it has to travel between the two points.

Green represents the apartments I was able to stand beside to recieve the signal, red are the deadspots, or limited connectivity

I'm shocked that I was even able to get this far.. Since the connections almost there, whats the best course of action to boost it a little further?

[M/Q]

A signal versus a workable link are two different things. What are you using to indicate signal strength? You may want to get the application caled NetStumbler as it will also show you all of the other networks and a much more realistic signal to noise ratio.

[codecx]

A signal versus a workable link are two different things. What are you using to indicate signal strength? You may want to get the application caled NetStumbler as it will also show you all of the other networks and a much more realistic signal to noise ratio.
Oh.. sorry.

I neglected to mention that I was able to pull up a webpage (& connect to MSN, took a long time though) on the green spots, whereas the mauve i had signal but couldn't pull up anything, or the network name would "fall" out of the list.. Red, the network name simply did not exist.

All I had was the XP wifi menu to check.. just 1 bar ;P
I'll check out this netstumbler too though.