Pulling my hair out - Billing Solution

[BokaD]

I'm currently in Iraq and looking to start a WISP. Everything else has been figured out but the billing software. I've visited 30+ sites but only run in to alot of marketing speak and no posted prices.

I need a system that will:
(1) Support 250-500 users (total, not concurrent)
(2) Accept credit cards
(3) Immediately and automatically create user accounts
(4) Support monthly and fixed time (hourly, etc...) billing
(5) Support recurring billing
(6) Allow access and authentication through RADIUS

I plan on using MikroTiK's RouterOS as my access controller/gateway/walled garden/etc...

I would prefer a solution hosted elsewhere but something run locally is fine as well.

Any nod in the right direction would be GREATLY appreciated.

Oh...how's this for expensive bandwidth....I pay $350/month for 64Kbps

[wirelessoceans]

Hi BokaD,

You can do all of those functions through the internal oss on both a nomadix AG2000 or IP3 gateway device. www.nomadix.com www.ip3networks.com

If you are looking for an all in one wisp solution you may also want to try powernoc. www.powernoc.net

For serious self hosted solution try http://www.sisd.com/freeside/

good luck

[BokaD]

Ouch, those are expensive solutions. I figured for that commoness of Cafe hotspot access points our theree, that there should be a cheap and simple solution. I just need a web page that will accept credit cards, automatically create a user account in a database, and then a RADIUS server that authenticates against that database. I don't want/need a hardware appliance. There must be some third party hosted service!

[hasan]

you can use firstspot software

[wirelessoceans]

you need a hardware device commonly refered to as a gateway. This is the device that does the redirection and authentication against the radius server. There are many ways to do this with a pc and software or a stand alone device, but you will need a local device. I think you can accomplish this with a linksys and chillspot, with the linksys acting as the gateway but I have never tried it. I have used almost every stand alone device and nomadix, ip3, colubris and value point/handlink will all work. The first three are very stable the last pretty stable but far less expensive.

There are many thrid party hosted solution but they also require a device/gateway of some sort. Also they usually have a $1,000 + set up fee. Try pronto, airpath, or authdirect. There are free software programs as well but you will need to buy a pc and config it yourself.

[rigbyorange]

Look at NoCat and FreeRadius
nocat.net and freeradius.org
Need to run Linux for these.

[BokaD]

I spoke poorly of Wireless Orbit too soon. They actually returned my call. No one ever returns calls to from Iraq!
All problems were sorted out and they seem like a good cheap ($50/month per hotspot) solution.
I ended up writing my own solution anyway, putting a PHP front end on my gateway device. Fortunately there are lots of credit card charging scripts, etc... already out there.

Hasan:
re: FirsSpot
Of all the things I want acting as my protective gateway to the internet, a Windows box is not one of them!

Oceans:
I should have said "don't need ANOTHER device". I already have a gateway, I just need an authentication and billing solution. Everyone's product seems geared towards having all traffic flow through it. Thanks for the mention of Value Point on HandLink. Both seem to have some very interesting products.

Orange:
I've looked at those and they are good solutions. The Linux part was the turn-off. This has to be maintaing by anyone with a minimum of technical skill. FreeRadius does run on windows but not in conjunction with mySQL.

[BobY777]

Hi BodaD:

Good luck with your WISP.

I myself am going to be starting a WISP. All the WISP people I know just charge a monthly fee according to the BW they want. No need for Radius servers, billing software, or Internet gateways like the expensive Nomadix. Or the DSA 3100, which I use in hotel WiFi hotspots.

Since you said you were going to be doing WISP services, that is aka "fixed wireless" to a certain point. You will know who your customers are ahead of time. Charge them monthly by the BW they sign up for. This service might use propritary radio systems for security. WiFi wireless does not.

If you are offering WiFi in public places, that is public wireless and you don't know who will be using that service. Thus the need for billing software or Radius servers, etc.

You said you were going to do WISP services. When you talked about billing software, I thought you might be thinking of WiFi, rather then WISP.

A WISP doesn't need an Internet gateway like the Nomadix or a DSA 3100 like I use in hotel WiFi. But you do need a good router that will allow you to do BW limiting, shaping and bursting. Plus you might want your equipment to be able to support QoS for VoIP services, if you want to offer that.

So if it is really WISP services, it will be much easier to charge a monthly fee and be done with it. You know who you are selling to ahead of time in a WISP operation (unlike in a WiFi hotspot).

We use Quickbooks Pro to do our monthly billing for our network integration customers. It could be used to bill montly for your WISP customers.

MikroTik makes very good equipment for a WISP operation...if you are into programming that stuff. I, myself am a little challanged in that area, so there are companies like Tranzeo and Trango that already have this stuff ready to go. Plus their stuff is made for temperature extremes. Motorola Canopy is also very good, if you don't mind paying a lot of money.

Canopy anbd TRango has 900 MHz equipment for NLOS use. Sometimes you dont' always have LOS...so 900 MHz might help out.

Also Deliberant has very good CPEs. I think they have to be programmed too. Lots of people use Deliberants also. And I hear the people there are very helpful.

[BokaD]

I guess I'm more of a hotspot then. I ended up starting off with 5 of the MikroTik RB532's boards using the Ubiquiti 400mw SR2 cards for user access and Atheros 5354's for backhaul. I tried an SR5 but couldn't get it to work. I've had quite a few problems with the RB532 so far. The older RB230's seem stable but the 532 (and its accompanying v2.9.7 software) is not, IMHO ready for commerical use. Right now I'm looking for a different, stabler, hardware and software solution.

[BobY777]

Hi BoKaD:

MiktoTik is good stuff. Some of the WISP owners I correspond with use it. But they are into programming. Unfortunately I'm challanged in that area. So I use appliances that are already finished...like the Tranzeo.

I got done testing a 2.4 G Tranzeo TR6500 and TR CPQ19f and gee they really have veeery good range. They have QoS in them too. I'm going to use them in my neighborhood WISP operation...when I finally get it going...LOL.

I kind of got sidetracked, by having to do a detailed proposal for a public and private wireless Internet site that a business owner wants. It will use a Tranzeo 5.8 G point to point system too. So I'm really looking forward to doing that one. Then I'll focus more into getting the WISP going.

Good luck with your hotspot.

I know if you use ZyXel, I think their gateway will work with a commercial billing authorization, authentication and Radius service. I understand ZyXel gateways are pretty good.

[Mark]

Does anyone know of a third party provider or otherwise that can enable my DSA 3100 to be configured to bill by bandwidth as well as time billing? or do I need another whole new software program to replace the D-Link firmware.

Mark

[BobY777]

The DSA 3100 does can't change BW on a per IP or MAC basis, with different BWs for different customers.

You would need something like Monowall to change the BW for each customer. But you would have to set it up ahead of time for each customer. I don't know that BW can be bought "on the fly" from any of the Internet gateways. I now use Monowall and it is great. Going to use it in a WISP operation. It even has captive portal and URL redirect...just like the DSA3100...and is less then half the price of the DSA 3100. Monowall even has a configurable firewall. And a whole bunch of additional features that the DSA 3100 does not have. I don't know that you can take credit card information when using Monowall though. You might have to ask some of the third party billing places if they can work with Monowall.

Just curious, what has been your customer experience when calling Dlink for information on the DSA 3100? Mine has been teeeerible due to some minor bugs (that I could work around), but Dlink wouldn't even acknowledge even existed. Dlink wouldn't even contact me back about the bugs...and I started working with the DSA3100 about 3 years ago. I use to use it in hotel WiFi. The newer B version is very stable now...unlike the A version. Whoever decided to sell the A version at Dlink, should be fired. The A version was always giving me problems, whereby I had to power reset it.

[golfnut]

You can charge for and control bandwidth by individual user with a RADIUS Server, MySQL, and PHP scripting (all Linux).

Works with most gateways....

Greg

[BobY777]

Hi golfnut:

Wow. That shows how little I know...lol.

I didn't realize you could control the BW of individual users on the DSA 3100, according to the BW they want to purchase, on the fly, by using those devices you mentioned.

I'm controling BW using Monowall, which I will be using in a WISP operation I want to get started.

It's really neat. It has many many features...router of course, firewall, traffic shaper, BW settings, captive portal, URL redirection, etc. And many other features that I don't even know about. Unfortunately it isn't documented all that well since it is free software.

I use a WRAP board with CF card. The WRAP board is about $140 and you only need a CF card 8 Meg or higher. And the Monowall application is free off the Monowall web site. I had to learn about pipes and queues and rules in order to configure its firewall and traffic shapper.

I will be using the traffic shaper section to use virtual pipes to set the BW for each WISP customer according to the speed they want to pay for. But I have to configure the Monowall ahead of time for the BW they want. I don't know how to sell them different bandwidths on the fly. Maybe Monowall could be used inconjunction with the devices you mentioned in order to set BW according to the speed a customer wants to buy at the moment. I'm not really up on that stuff. I just feel lucky to have a basic understanding of Monowall...lol. There is still so much more about it I don't know about.

I'll admit, I don't know much about Radius servers...other then how to spell it...lol.

[golfnut]

Linux Radius is really not that difficult to setup (I know, easy for me to say). It may take a few tries, but once you get it, it beats the heck out of the $5k Windows version. It's worth the effort...

We use it to authenticate users at a few sites using different vendor gateways with MySQL to store user info, along with a few other apps.

It will work with the 3100 although there are a few un-documented tricks to make it work.

I should clarify that bandwidth is controlled by groups and not individuals. Users are assigned to groups and each group has its own pre-defined set of attributes.

By the way, the 3100 is really a mini PC that runs a mini version of Linux.

Greg

[BobY777]

Hi Greg:

Thanks for the post.

Wow. I was using Linux all the time with the DSA 3100 and I didn't even know it...lol.

I do recall the groups that you mentioned within the DSA 3100.

I do see that I will eventually need to learn about Radius. Like with the WPA2 security.

I see I just don't have a good enough birds eye view of using the DSA 3100 with Radius in order to do the neat implementation that you are doing for authentication.

Thanks you for the post. Good luck in your business.

I'm real near handing out my door hangers for my WISP business. I just need to line up a few installers for the CAT5 and pole to mount the CPE on.

I was out yesterday crawling around on a couple trucking company warehouse roofs, in order to do a 2 mile PTP test shot. It worked great. I love this stuff. It was even fun crawling around on top of the buildings...lol. And I'm 62...lol.

[golfnut]

Hey Bob,

You do know that the 3100 is obsolete so if you planned on using it for your WISP, you might consider something else like the Nomadix AG2100. It's a bit spendy but an awesome product.

You'll have a few more user control options/automation with an external RADIUS server.

Good luck with your WISP!

Greg

[BobY777]

Hi Greg:

Thank you Greg.

I'll be using something called Monowall. It has a router, firewall, and traffic shaper built in. It's really really neat for WISP work. Some people have even gotton rid of their Cisco routers for Monowall. And Monowall software if free.

I just put it on a WRAP board with a CF card. No moving parts.

Monowall doesn't have a few of the features for WiFi use like at hotels, but for WISP work I love it.

It even has captive portal and forced URL. Plus many other features a WISP needs. And it can be put together for around $175 with the box for the WRAP board. And it can handle temperature extremes for outdoor use.

For a WiFi hotspot at a hotel, I still might use the new DSA 3200. Is that the one that replaced the DSA 3100? But then I just might use Monowall, since it is much less expensive.

[lazyguy]

you might want to take a look at this software YesTurnkey it works with Nomadix for billing and user password

[WispLender]

Go to www.dBOSS-Online.com.

It is a 'free' billing and OSS platform designed by a wisp for wisps. I put 'free' because it is subsidized with a little advertising by wisp industry vendors, like Tranzeo. But it is free to wisps.