WiFi also have big need for bandwidth controls ?

[BobY777]

Do WiFi installations have big needs for...
Bandwidth throttling
BW bursting
BW shaping
QoS
?

The preceeding is used in WISP operations, but I don't know that I have seen the preceeding as requirements for WiFi operations.

Simple BW throttling is about all I have seen for WiFi.

Thanks

[wirelessoceans]

Depends on the application of wi-fi...ofices may need QoS and shapping...simple hotspots may not need any of these. It all depends on the level of service and quality of service you want to provide or the end users require....there are no blanket yes or no answers

[BobY777]

Hi wireless oceans:

In WISP operations, I understand that if there is BW bursting and throttling, that a WISP operation can get 50 to 100 people on a T1 line. And there is QoS for VoIP.

But...

If there is none of this, then maybe only 25 to 30 people might be able to use a 1.5 MB line.

I figured that with the BW controls, that more people can be put on an AP then if there was no BW controls.

But I don't know of any APs that do what some of the BW controllers do in WISP operations.

I guess I was wondering why the BW controls didn't make their way into the WiFi end of things like they do in WISP operations.

I'm assuming since the customers are always fixed and the same people they will really complain, if they get slow service, as compared to a one night WiFi user in a hotel. It is a thought anyway.

Thanks,

Bob

[golfnut]

Bob,

Based on all of the questions around this subject, it may be a good idea to take a few steps back and design your WISP operation from the customers perspective and expectations, especially if you're charging for the service.

As Rick mentioned, there aren't any easy yes / no answers and this is really no different than designing any large wireless network.

Even if you don't offer VOIP, you're customers may want to use Vonage. Some customers may want to do a lot of P2P downloading. Some customers may want higher download speeds. Do your customers want an uptime gaurentee or phone support? Do you have home office customers that video conference or use some form of Net Meeting? Can your customers get broadband for other sources? Etc. etc. etc.

Customer expectations --> customer demand for this service --> potential revenue --> cost to meet expecations and demand --> risk factors --> is it worth it?

Just a suggestion...

Greg

[wirelessoceans]

That may be the best WISP diagram i have ever seen drawn up :)

Bob,

Those assumptions are not correct. One user can possibly use up your T1 without BW control. It all depends on the application and the user, especially in a WISP environment.

You should really take a course or have a networking professonal explain bandwidth and fixed wireless to you in detail. It is not possible to answer your questions in posts appropraitly. It takes years of traininig, schooling, or practice to understand the answers to alot of these questions, and even then there are no definate answers.

[BobY777]

Hi golfnut and wirelessoceans:

Wow. I like that diagram.

Golfnut, I like your diagram there.

As you all can see, I'm doing a heck of a lot of thinking about this stuff. It takes all I can do to think up a half way intelligent question...LOL.

I found out I needed BW control. Then I found out that an appliance BW controller would be way too expensive if I was going to have headends in each neighborhood.

Then I found out that there are software BW controllers that are much less expenseve. Only problem is it seems to use those things I need to be a Linux computer guru. Seem that there must be some way I get a BW controller on a pc. There has to be a company selling a BW controller for non-computer gurus in Linux or in Windows. Something for people like me, that won't break the bank.

I did notice though that in WiFi locations, there is no big push to do BW control like in WISP circles. Even Nomadix only has BW throttling. No bursting or QoS. And Nomadix is a standard in the WiFi industry. So I got to thinking why doesn't WiFi have all the BW controls that WISP has.

But I know that if I am to get BW control, it will have to be on a pc since that is more cost-effective.

I found out today that the company I'm associated with has its own DNS servers. So I guess I can use them to give quick DNS service for my soon-to-be WISP operation. I just need something now to set up BW controls.

I do thank you all for your input. I think it is pointing me in the right direction. I just need to be able to find a BW control program that I can put on a pc. So far it looks like it will need to be Linux.

But my big stumbling block is I only barely know how to spell Linux and I don't think most networking people (who work on Windows networks everyday), may even know Linux.

But I wonder if there is a BW control program that will work on Windows also.

If I can do a lot of the research here to nail down the exact program I feel I need to use, I might be able to get one of the network guys at our company to help me out. Although, I realize that people who work in Windows networking every day, may not necessarily know how to work with Linux or do BW controllers.

I'm trying to learn as much as I can (with my limited networking background), so that I don't have to push a whole lot of work onto the networking people. This BW control stuff may be something most networking people don't do everyday...expecially in Linux.

For instance we have DNS servers. But I think they run under Windows...I believe.

Thanks so much,
Bob

[golfnut]

Bob,

You really don't have to be a Linux guru to use it. It has a gui just like Windows and best of all it and many of the applications that run on it are FREE and very stable.

The only drawback or learning curve is manually configuring and installing various applications like FreeRaduis. It gets a little more complicated when you want applications to talk to each other like Radius and SQL however, there is a wealth of information available on the net.

It's great to be creative and try new things but take Rick's advice because there is no substitute for experience from learning.

Greg

[smartcap]

Bob...i'm not taking a shot at you....BUT...I've been reading thru the forums the past few months...and am now asking myself (now you)..are you winging this entire wifi venture?


Although the questions that you have asked in the forum are helpful...especially to beginners / or hobbyists getting into WiFi....BUT for someone starting a WISP...you should have known the answers to these questions already. It seems to me from reading your posts that you are winging it.......please correct me if i'm wrong... (from a customer perspective that is very scary)

Please forgive me, if I have offended u in anyways...that is not my intentions.

[BobY777]

Hi smartcap:

Thanks for the post.

I do feel you are asking a respectful question.

I have found the posts from the other people on here to be very helpful to me. I really do come up with these questions as I go throughout the day. I might be driving my car to take my wife somewhere, and one of these questions pops into my head. I'm pretty much always th inking of this WISP stuff.

I didn't want to be complacent into thinking I could do a good WISP operation, just because I was able to set up good WiFi operations. My WiFi operations have been working so well (praise the Lord). In the beginning I had a few bumps, due to a poor hotspot gatewayu design by a well known mfg. Now they finally got a v B out and it is working flawlessly...even in "the largest hotel in the western half of MD" where I set one up.

I'm really not a networking guru. However I can easily now set up the hotspot gateway, with all its DNS and IP settings and it works right off the bat. Even for remote mangement.

But...

I have found out from reading WISP information, that there is so much more I need to know...mainly about BW controls. The rf part I feel real comfortable with. There is a heck of a lot to learn about with this BW stuff. So many ways to attack BW controls I have found out.

If I have money to burn, I could put an appliance at each AP I want to have. Or I could use a pc with commercial or opensource software. And then I have found out about WRAP boards. Never knew abou them before.

Seems WRAP boards are just little computers (processors) built on a small pc board and stuffed in a box with the AP. But these can use opensource code or if I want to pay more can be put together by a commercial place. But if I want to use opensource to get a better price, I have to be a computer Linux guru. And some of it is buggy.

So this BW control stuff is real complicated for me.

I do realize that if I want to keep WISP customers I need to offer more then just a high power AP pointed at them. I was real worried about getting some kind of cost-effective high quality AP (high power and high receive sensitivity), but also with BW controls to give my customers a good experience.

I have been so fortunate to have run into so many nice people on here. No I'm not offended with your question. Cause I can see that someone might wonder about me...LOL. My wife says she wonders about me, and it has nothing to do with WISP operation...LOL. Just kidding...LOL.

The nice people on here have sure pointed me in various directions of what works for them. Everyone here has so much collective knowledge, I know it helps more people out then just me. I hope my sincere questions do help others.

I went to the ISPCON in Baltimore last week. It was great. So many knowledgeable people. I ran into one guy who was running a WISP. I think he has a couple thousand people on his WISP system. That guy is a real genius. He was showing me how he could remotely monitor people and look for people with BW problems, etc. But he has the big bucks coming in to use equipment from Allot and other high priced equipment mfgs. I have to work up to that, knowledge and money wise. As a small time operator right now, I have to come up with something that works real well on a small scale. Then get expensive equipment later on, as things h opefully grow. But that guy is a real genius. And there are so many intelligent people here and at the ISPCON. I'm hoping to glean a little knowledge from them. I think there are others in my boat too. I think it will help them too.

Actually just by me formulating some of the questions, helps me out. I do feel much better now about deploying what I think will be a cost effective WISP system. In the beginning I wasn't sure which way to go. I just knew I couldn't use the hotel APs by themselves, with almost no BW controls. I'm even trying to find a system that will let me offer quality VoIP to my future customers.

I'm hope I'm asking quesions that will help other people out there also.

Feel free to offer any constructive criticism. I need it...LOL. And it may help others sitting on the sidelines reading my seemingly ignorant questions.

My biggest problem is I'm not as good at networking as I want to be. I'm looking at taking a course at a local community college, although I do have several networking books. But even our networking guys at work, who work with networking for many companies every day, don't know the Linux stuff, that has to be known here, to do some of this stuff.

I have found that there is a ton of information that has to be known to deploy a successful WISP operation. I feel so lucky to be able to "talk" to you all via the forums.

I have seen that there are really some real geniuses here too when it comes to this WISP deployment. Some of you guys seem to just know this stuff so well. I'm hoping to learn a little from you all.

Thanks so much,
Bob

[hmhc]

I for one, log on here everynight hoping to learn from all the questions and answers. Bob always generates some good discussions. Many of us quietly sit on the sidelines soaking up good information. I have learned much from this forum. I enjoy reading all the discussions.