Is there any equipment alredy?

[alexus]

Is there any equipment for WiMax, alredy?
Its 05 time to release the Fixed Wireless part, I heard that chips are alredy made, but no APs yet.

[wirelessoceans]

Hi,

The standard is not ratified yet, but should be by the end of the first quarter. For products check out

www.wi-lan.com

www.alvarion.com

[alexus]

they sale equipment in license band for $1M...........
not cheap

[wirelessoceans]

Yes,

So far as what I ve seen from the mfgrs the pre WiMax and WiMax equipment is expensive for both base station and cpe when compared to 2.4 and 5ghz but the range and capacity is far better and all products do polling, which is essential to optimize thruput for large p-mp network. You can get the products in licensed (3ghz) and unlicensed bands (2.4 and 5ghz) from both mfgrs.

Rick

[alexus]

Unlicensed spectrum is good, but 2.4G :-) we know what is going on with Wi-Fi, in NYC we got at least 4-8 APs working on channel-6

I wnna get license for no more the 250k

Whats your plans about WiMax by the way?

[wirelessoceans]

Me too:)

Waiting for the details and ratification but some products look interesting for the proper application.

[alexus]

U going to deploy at Miami?

[FlaWireless]

We have been using Proxim,Plessy and P-Com units in the licenced and non-licenced bands.
The equipment is more but depending on what you want to do not that much more( Not millions) Point to Point 50K 14miles.?????.....it really depends on what your doing

[wirelessoceans]

Fortunatly most of Miami is line of sight to a few tall buildings. But the range and thruput of wimax gear from some mfgrs are eybrow raising (NLOS 25 miles at 192 megs per sector, up to 2500 cpe per sector). Those types of numbers cannot be ignored. But pricing is still high for cpe and base stations....I guess you cant get everything for nothing but I'll let you know if I do something here. :cool:

[alexus]

FlaWireless, thanks for info on proxims (i didnt know thay have wifi alredy, last time I've checked them they had only Sonnet PtP) If their license is only 50k then its not a problem at all, exept what did u mean about 14 miles?

Wirelessoceans,
(NLOS 25 miles at 192 megs per sector, up to 2500 cpe per sector).

Wait, thats for fixed wireless only, don't u wanna go for mobile too? As I know for mobile u got to have a station each 3 miles. Even though there is no mobile clients yet, I dont want to re-install all stations again 3 years later in order for mobile devices to work everywhere.

Buy the way u lucky if Miami is all in one line, cause here in NY its either u got a skyscraper that blocks all signals you u got 2 floors buliding and in that are like 30% are using Inet and I still got to install a base station so that others will get good service.

Speaking of the signal, what is the usual emittion power on WiMax radios?

[FlaWireless]

Alexus,
It really depends on what you would like to accomplish. Wimax can be so broad.

[alexus]

Well what i'm planing to do is to install fixed wireless infostructure this year, but it should be compatible with 802.16e the mobile standart; so that in a future I can run VoIP phones on it... ;-)

[wirelessoceans]

Hey,

Read the article on the wifiplanet home page. It lays it out much like I see it. Mobile 802.16 is a few (2 or 3) years out at which time 3G networks may be and will probably be well developed. I see WiMax as a fixed wireless NLOS solution for WISP's and countries/regions without decent copper infrastructures......that is until wildblue covers the globe with its satellite service! Rural WISP's are in trouble over the comming year.
www.wildblue.com

[alexus]

well, G3 installation will begin in 2008 or later I know that for sure.

First WiMAX certified are out there alwed, so equipment should weout soon too. Article mentionse that WiMAx will have less mobility, (that scares me) got to reserch that topic.

As for the satilite :-) dont wory, that is not an alternative to WiMAX or G3, cause sitilite channel goes for $150/min to get 1.5Mbps Broadband, (even though 3rd companies sale it for $45, I dont belive that the service is good, the only way to make sitilite internet cheap is to use SAT-Broadcast and Dial-Up unicast, so the request is send by phone line and recieved from SAT as broadcast. I've tryed that one, and I think DSL works better (also some copmpanies charge ~$300-800 for installation and equipment.

Ive red some Wi-Lan white papers, and I think I might install their pre wimax equipment (dont know where yet) but I think the structure should be build for easy 16e migration, so we could become a cell phone provider too.

[golfnut]

Is Wildblue the same as other satellite ISPs (Starband & Direcway) or are they offering something different?

Greg

[wirelessoceans]

HI,

Verison already has EV-DO deployed in many major cities that can provide 500kbps right now and up to 3 megs in the next year or so. 3G is being deployed as we speak but it is not fully operational. However it does have a major advantage over WiMax....licensed bands. If you use 5.8 for your WiMax you have to accept interference from other providers as per the FCC. And anyone can deploy over the top of you, not to mention exisiting 5.8 that is already deployed.

As far as WildBlue is concerned it is nothing like the brodcast sats the Direcway or StarBand use. I have been in extensive discussion with them about their product. They have a new technology developed by Boeing and Lorral that offers DSL speeds (1.5m x 128k) for less that $80 per month anywhere in the US with cheap installation. They used phased array technology for the birds(similar to polling done by WiMax and other advanced wireless technollogy) that will also carry direcTV or Dish Networks all over one dish. They used to have a great 5 min video on their site that they have taken down, but its explained the technology. I will try to get the video to share. But theri dish has a transciever that does two way communication. This is what they say and cannot personally verify but they do have their own birds and that is not cheap.

Gotta run...have a good day

[alexus]

The cheapest sat cost 500k + lunch 40-80mil, minimum amount of sats needed to cover US is 8, but 24 is recomended. Regular mrket price for the sat that is in the air is 500mil ==> I dont think thay've got two ways sats, they probably rent some channels from InterSat network (which was for sale recently)

Oh yes, isnt the Verizons network is G2.5? cause they have CDMA2000?

[alexus]

Back to WiMAX: Mobility Issue
As that article mentioned the wimax got less mobility as G3.
Is from what I found, the 802.16e which supports "mobile clients" will be able to establish the connection to NOT moving clients only. This means if you got laptop or a phone you got to stop moving in order to connect and use the network.

That fact is actualy **** my expectations, cause I wanted to create alternative cell phone network. Got to think of different clients now

[wirelessoceans]

Alex,

They have their own sats Boeing built the first one and Lorral is doing the second right now. It is two way also. They have one that covers the US the second it set for launch in two months. They have big VC behind them. I'll send you a copy of the info video and documentation when I get it. Yeah 2.5G is whats out now but its is different than their EV-DO. Check it out on their site.

Rick

[hanzzon]

So there is no Wimax equipment except for the 5000$+ stuff for (W)ISP's?

I remember reading last year that someone was supposed to come out with an AP in January 2005 but maybe that project did not go as planned? Unfortunantley I do not remember the company name...

[alexus]

as to my knowlage the APs like Wi-Fi AP should be developed in stage 2; somwhere around 2006

[FlaWireless]

There is "wimax" equipment out there right now depending on what you would like to do.
Wimax is a very very broad standard.
************************************************** **
Copied from http://www.wimaxforum.org

The IEEE 802.16 Working Group has developed point-to-multipoint broadband wireless access standard for systems in the frequency ranges 10-66 GHz and sub 11 GHz. The standard covers both the Media Access Control (MAC) and the physical (PHY) layers.
A number of PHY considerations were taken into account for the target environment. At higher frequencies, line of sight is a must. This requirement eases the effect of multipath, allowing for wide channels, typically greater than 10 MHz in bandwidth. This gives IEEE 802.16 the ability to provide very high capacity links on both the uplink and the downlink. For sub 11 GHz non line of sight capability is a requirement. The original IEEE 802.16 MAC was enhanced to accommodate different PHYs and services, which address the needs of different environments. The standard is designed to accommodate either Time Division Duplexing (TDD) or Frequency Division Duplexing (FDD) deployments, allowing for both full and half-duplex terminals in the FDD case.

The MAC was designed specifically for the PMP wireless access environment. It supports higher layer or transport protocols such as ATM, Ethernet or Internet Protocol (IP), and is designed to easily accommodate future protocols that have not yet been developed. The MAC is designed for very high bit rates (up to 268 mbps each way) of the truly broadband physical layer, while delivering ATM compatible Quality of Service (QoS); UGS, rtPS, nrtPS, and Best Effort.

The frame structure allows terminals to be dynamically assigned uplink and downlink burst profiles according to their link conditions. This allows a trade-off between capacity and robustness in real-time, and provides roughly a two times increase in capacity on average when compared to non-adaptive systems, while maintaining appropriate link availability.

The 802.16 MAC uses a variable length Protocol Data Unit (PDU) along with a number of other concepts that greatly increase the efficiency of the standard. Multiple MAC PDUs may be concatenated into a single burst to save PHY overhead. Additionally, multiple Service Data Units (SDU) for the same service may be concatenated into a single MAC PDU, saving on MAC header overhead. Fragmentation allows very large SDUs to be sent across frame boundaries to guarantee the QoS of competing services. And, payload header suppression can be used to reduce the overhead caused by the redundant portions of SDU headers.

The MAC uses a self-correcting bandwidth request/grant scheme that eliminates the overhead and delay of acknowledgements, while simultaneously allowing better QoS handling than traditional acknowledged schemes. Terminals have a variety of options available to them for requesting bandwidth depending upon the QoS and traffic parameters of their services. They can be polled individually or in groups. They can steal bandwidth already allocated to make requests for more. They can signal the need to be polled, and they can piggyback requests for bandwidth.

The Interoperability Challenge
Plethora of Options
From the preceding overview, it is clear that the IEEE 802.16 Air Interface Specification is a very capable, while complex, specification. There are allowances for a number of physical layers for different frequency bands and region-by-region frequency regulatory rules. There are features that allow an IP centric system or an ATM centric system depending upon the needs of customers. The specification is designed to cover application to diverse markets from very high bandwidth businesses to SOHO and residential users.

[hanzzon]

FlaWireless; thank you, I was not aware Wimax was supposed to be so "broad" in it's different approaces to different markets/needs...

This will be a big stepup from 802.11 where we only have one standard with two or maybe three bands!

What I want to do is setup a 5km point to point link with NLOS, the bandwidth requirement will be 8mbps plus some overhead so lets say 11mbps...

It is mainly pine and spruce trees that covers the LOS, there is almost no fresnel zone available but the two sites are located at pretty much the same height and according to a topography map there is not any hills inbetween...

[FlaWireless]

I'm not a big fan of the saying "NLOS", sure you can have an AP/Bridge that you can connect to that you can't "SEE" but RF line of site still needs to be there.
With enough power you can do almost anything, but I like to think that in general you need LOS to do these links.

[alexus]

Hm, according to Wi-Lan's white paper on LibraMX their product does not require the LOS?

[FlaWireless]

Well I won't go so far as to say it can't be done, because I have never used there equipment.
I would love to see some true NLOS equipment going 10 miles with no RF LOS.........some would love to claim it's there, I for one have never seen it though.

Proof is in the pudding.

[alexus]

well we got cell phones that are woking in NLOS, sure the highest RF for cells is 1.8GHz , where the wave is "avoiding" objects...

in case of WiMax, we got 3.5Ghz in this case the wave would go in the object and depend on its power it either buypass or wanish

I have some info that in 3.5 we can use 25W output, which for 3 miles ranges is more than enough for NLOS (I hhope FCC willl alocate at least 9 nonoverlaping cannels, otherwice 25W may make some problems with inrerfearence... [6-for cell, 3-back ups ])

[golfnut]

Sometimes we have to separate the fly poop from the pepper or hype vs. reality.

I agree with FlaWireless, it would be nice to hear some testament to the performance of this equipment in a real NLOS environment.

Greg

[alexus]

I think we can try the equipment, but the sepectrum is tooo expensive

[wirelessoceans]

I wouldnt hold my breath or my wallet in waiting for this WiMax bubble to burst but I will try sample units if any mfgrs want to give them to me for beta............please;)

[alexus]

well, i can try to get something if i ask from the name of some # companies... I sometimes works