Too good to be true?

[RiDDeyZZ]

Ok...this seems impossible so I want to figure out what I am doing wrong. I purchased a "Linksys - EtherFast Wireless AP + Cable/DSL Router 4port Switch" to replace the weak ass Uniden WNR2004 that didn't cut it because of firmware problems I had...the problem I am having with the Linksys is that I think the signal is insanely strong, or I have done something wrong. At my house the network works great...have it all setup WEP enabled and what-not, no problem whatsoever totally happy. Today I brought my laptop to work just to get some things done and as astounding as it is my network shows up at my work(roughly 1-2km away) this is completely baffling to me because we didn't even setup the router in our house to be most efficient...I can't figure out why it shows my network at this distance. The signal is not strong enough to connect...it will switch back and forth between "Low" and "No Signal". My first thought was because my computer had been hibernating when i left my house and I didn't open it until I got to work maybe it was just thinkin it still had that connection?...however ridiculous that is I restarted my computer to make sure...and it still shows my network. As I reviewed some of my settings I noticed its set as a Peer 2 Peer Ad-hoc network, would this somehow trick my computer into thinkin my network is available even though its not? Or is it feasible that because there aren't that many obstructions between here and there that I actually can access my network?...I am so confused...I spose as soon as I am heading home I will watch my laptop and see just how close to my house I can actually receive a signal.

[james]

You should check it out with a utility like netstumber or kismet. Start at your home and get the MAC address of your Linksys. Then drive to your work and get the MAC address of the device in question. Are they the same? It may just be the device has the same SSID as yours does. It could also be someone who has configured their own computer improperly. Who knows... do a little more digging, but I doubt it's the same AP at 1-2km away.

[RiDDeyZZ]

I have "PCTEL: Segue Roaming Client" it informs me of any networks that are available...sometimes I use that and sometimes I just use XP...on the PCTEL it shows at full signal strength but will not let me connect, I have restarted twice now...when going through XP it will continuosly connect and disconnect saying that it does find the signal and it will just switch back and forth from nothing...to "No Signal" to "Low" but regardless will not let me get online. And this is my personal computer that I mainly use at home...has nothing to do with work and I have never changed my SSID number, my network is WEP enabled and we don't have security issues...the other networks I can view from my house(one will connect witha low signal and one is WEP enabled) never interfere with my connection.

PS the name of my network is "HappyFunTime" and uses Hex encryption...I am finding it really hard to believe that somebody else would have this...but I agree that its laughable to think I can connect to my network at this range...

[james]

I have never used the PCTel roaming utility... does it display MAC addresses? If not then that's way I suggested you try NetStumbler, since it will tell you the MAC address of the device it detects. If you don't know what a MAC address is, it's a unique identifier given to a piece of networking hardware... so it would be an easy way to tell if it was the same AP or not. If the MACs are the same, it is; if not, they're different.

Do you have a clear line of sight to your network from the location 1-2km away?

[RiDDeyZZ]

No PCTEL does not display the MAC address and yes I do understand what that is I will look into getting NetStumbler as soon as I get home(or anywhere between here and there where my signal does actually show up. As far as line of site is concerned its kinda downhill...a few buildings but nothing huge, trees, maybe a very small hill or two. I completely understand what you mean about the MAC address proving wether or not its my network...I am confused as to why it would have my Nework name in there, we chagned it to something that we figured nobody else would have for this specific reason, how could I get past the WEP encryption? wouldn't they have had to have the same Hex key?...I am just very unclear as to how it would show somebody elses network with my network name...if I had left the network name as default I could see that happening; could you set me straight on this aspect of it please? Thanx.

[james]

I know what you're saying about trying to make your SSID unique... but that doesn't always stop someone else from coppying it. The client utility (I'm assuming, again I've never used the PCTel client) only detects the signal strength and if the network has WEP enabled, not wether it is the same as your key on your laptop. So no, they would not have to have the same key as you, all that matters is that they have WEP turned on. This could explain why you detect a signal but can't connect to it, because you are using a different key than they are.

[RiDDeyZZ]

I am still unclear as to why it shows my network...shouldn't it just say "Netgear" or somethin like that? XP will automatically connect it and say its connected with a "low" signal...if all it detects is whether or not there is a network...and whether or not it is WEP enabled how does it get associated a Network name? When I'm at my house I can view 3 connections; mine, NETGEAR and Compulon are the names of the networks when they show up on both XP and on PCTEL(which I rarely use, I only referenced it to show that in two seperate programs I was having the same situation)...when we setup our Network it gave us the choice to leave it at the regular network name...or change it which we did so we could always recognize ours vs somebody elses. So how is it that they got the same Network name...?

[james]

Because just as you changed your network name, someone else could do the exact same thing and change their network name to be the same as yours. There's nothing stopping anyone from doing that.

A wireless network is identified by the name that it is given... it's called the SSID. It is not a unique identifier in any sense. As you have seen yourself, it can easily be changed on any AP.

[RiDDeyZZ]

OK OK I follow you, you mean somebody could have stumbled onto my network, liked the name and decided to change their name to the same thing? I see your point...I think it more unlikely that somebody copied "HappyFunTime" then my router reaching this distance...I do very much appreciate the info though, after I get off work and go home tonight I will do a bunch of testing and see what I can find out and post it up here...

[james]

Yeah, it sounds odd, but who knows. I'll be interested to see what the case was. Good luck!

-James
www.DailyWireless.com

[M/Q]

Interesting thread, there are several options that might be at work here. First you stated that your house had a height advantage over the workplace. Second you mentioned that it had a fairly clear line of sight. Where is the router in the house, perchance is it on the side facing the workplace? It is not all that far fetched that you might be sensing your node. If you run the calculations with a few assumptions the system operating margin is approximately 5dB. Not the normal 25-30dB to obtain a solid link, but it is a positive margin.

http://www.ydi.com/calculation/som.php

That fact that the signal is fluctuating means that it is trying to associate, you have not associated and therefore WEP does not come into play yet. That is why you will not get a connection. Signal detection is much easier to accomplish than actually getting through the association handshake. I believe the techy explanation is that the carrier is being sensed, but the signal is not strong enough to decode the modulation.

Another possibility is that the signal is being bounced or repeated. I have seen some cases where this has occurred, and it is somewhat freaky. It was very dependent on weather conditions as well.

As mentioned the true test will be determining the MAC address. Just to be helpful as you may not realize it, NetStumbler does not work for all wireless adaptors. Especially 11a and 11g. Check out the FAQ's at the site, to see if your adaptor will work.

http://www.netstumbler.com/

[RiDDeyZZ]

Sorry for the boggled information...

My house is probably 100-200 feet lower than my work, there is pretty good line of site and the router only has one small wall between it and the direction of my work. I absolutely know you are right about it sensing the connection but not establishing it(I do tech support for cell phones so this is all very similar) because it will just continuously jump back and forth.

One thing is for sure...the Linksys...worlds better than the Uniden

IMHO

[M/Q]

Really curious, if you do not mind are you planning to try NetStumbler and confim the MAC. That would be impressive to know if it was indeed making the link.

[RiDDeyZZ]

When I got home and tried to access my network it would not let me...it kept doing the same thing it had been doing when I left my work, so I decided to delete the current network connction and make a new one that was not peer to peer(now that I have access to my hex key). I again get "Excellent" anywhere in my house: the router is located in the loft(above the garage) underneath the computer desk, there is a very large window that is the the direction of my work...no obstructions really except one building directly in front of my work. But I work on the second story...roughly 200yds? vertically above the level of my house, my friends estimate the distance from my house to my work to be more like 3km...I have the next two days off so most likely I won't find out for sure until Tuesday. However I did some testing of the signal strength(with my newly acquired Netstumbler) and came up with some signal strengths for my house and area:
~Directly next to the router - 19
~Accross the room - 46
~In the kitchen - 48
~Living room - 49
~My room - 58
~Anywhere downstairs -64
~Very back corner of the yard - 65
~Middle of the street - 66

I haven't gone any further than that yet...but let me tell you I am totally satisfied with this router already, I can play Halo at the same quality right next to the router...as I can out in the very back corner of my yard(as soon as I get a new hammock back there), and hopefully with a little tweaking get an internet connection at my work *crosses fingers*.

Linksys BEFW11S4 A+ in my book

[M/Q]

Thanks for the update, and please make sure to let us know about the MAC address.

[RiDDeyZZ]

OK...after getting Netstumbler I haven't found a signal at my work. When I first brought it to work yesterday it said it found the signal on the little XP indicator, and still showed in Netstumbler but the color had changed from Blue to Grey. It stayed like that and was the same MAC address, but would not let me access my network. I restarted at this point and it did not find a signal again, when I went home I watched it the entire way and did not find a signal until I got right next to the router. However when i did that it only found a "Low" signal and would not connect to any websites until I restarted my computer(did not work)...restarted my router and that fixed the problem, got a great connection after that. Today I brought it to work and it found nothing whatsoever. I havent' gone home yet so that I am not sure about yet...but a few differences between the days:

Day 1) Network was set on "Peer to Peer"...worked before work, but not after work. Weather was horrible all day, very overcast.

Day 2) Network settings were all fixed(to my knowledge) no longer "Peer to Peer"...worked before and after work*. Weather was beautiful all day long.

Day 3) Network settings were the same as Day 2...Weather was pretty nice all day...barely overcast.

I don't know what I could have wrong in my configurations to cause this...I am somewhat at a loss.

[M/Q]

I was wondering how it even worked on peer to peer to begin with. I would be feeling OK if it just worked in my house and not worry about the rest. You really do not want the signal being out there in that respect any way. If you need the link at work that is a different story and easy to remedy.

[RiDDeyZZ]

If by "need" you mean want it to play Halo at work...and want access to all my MP3's at home, then you are speakin my language. However it is not something I planned on having, so I won't really be upset if it doesn't work. What do you have in mind for what I could do to get a signal at my work?

There is a Wi-Fi Service provider in my area that boasts a 650 square mile service area...with reported speeds of 800k+. It really sounds like a great deal, its pre-paid...no startup costs(must have 802.11b compliant device) $40 a month...$19.95 a week. So it sounds like its cheaper, faster, and not as binding as my current service. I am not sure the exact stipulations on the service...but they sound like they might be a good option.

[james]

Sometimes Windows does things that you just can explain. When was the last time you ran Windows Update? I know when I used to use Windows the wireless features would do some odd things sometimes... wierd problems would happen and then mysteriously go away sometime later. Did you get any more conclusive results on your drive today?

[M/Q]

Well if you have a shot at getting a clear line of sight and can have some equipment at work, a bridge link is very possible. You may need an antenna, and possibly a bridge device outside at each location. If they could see each other the link should be very doable, check out the first post with the calculations website. If you want to go into details, let me know. Also there are several threads on such setups already.