H E L P!!! i need an advice with netwotking gadget

[ponzy]

hi guys hope someone could help me out with networks and stuff. im basically a newbee with networking. i have only one computer- laptop (p 4 1.8 ghrtz 256 mb 40 gig) and 1 printer but i want it wirelessly connected with my dsl internet . what do i need to buy (up to $170 budget). ive heard a router and a card.. what do you think the best product (as to speed, signalwise {covering 2000 sq. foot home} efficiency--{for future use}, easy installation. thanks

ponzy:confused:

[jatkins679]

OK, first things first: relax. For $170, you have PLENTY of money to get yourself a wireless access point (AP) and a wireless PCMCIA card for your laptop. That's all you need to get yourself started with your laptop having wireless access to your DSL modem and thus the internet.

Getting your printer networked with your laptop in such an arrangement is a little more tricky unless you buy an AP that has an integrated print server. With an AP with an integrated print server, all you'd have to do is attach your printer to the AP and you have wireless access to your printer from your laptop. I know Hawking, D-Link, and Linksys all make APs with a print server. If you don't want to do that route, you can do what I have done: run a cheapo wired router with integrated print server between my cable modem and wireless AP (I put together my WLAN before APs came with print servers; so this was the only way to do it and I haven't had a need to upgrade or change it).

I won't speak as to what equipment you should buy except to say that you should buy all the same brand if you can. All WiFi equipment is supposed to work with each other, but sometimes they don't. Easiest just to buy all the same brand and avoid that problem.

Everyone has their own opinion about what brand is best and which ones blow and so forth. I would simply suggest you do your own homework and convince yourself as to which brand to buy.

The square footage of your house isn't no more important when it comes to WLAN coverage than what kinds of walls/objects the signal will go through, the straight-line distances between your client and the AP, possible RF interference in the area, and so forth. Unfortunately, unless you want to shell out $$ to have a wireless survey done, you simply will not know if one AP will cover your whole house or if one brand will and another won't unless you actually try it all out. So if you can, buy your stuff locally and from a place with a liberal return policy.

As far as 'efficiency', I take that to mean throughput speed of the WLAN. Unfortunately, your budget makes that somewhat easy: you'll probably have to go with 802.11b equipment to get a decent selection of stuff. You could go 802.11g. But your internet connection is less than 1mb/s anyway, something 802.11b can handle with ease (if there is a usable wireless signal at all, it has to be at least 1mb/s). So unless you foresee a need in the immediate (<1yr.) future to constantly trade huge files between your laptop and another computer on the WLAN, 802.11b is what you'll want and need for the forseeable future.

As far ease of installation, that goes part and parcel with the brand. Some brands (like Linksys) have better reputations for ease-of-use/installation than others. But again, opinions will vary.

[ponzy]

well thanks jatkins for the insights, actually i've already made some homework and i found dl-614+ router and a dwl-650+ for the wireless cardbus. and also much cheaper in compare wth lynksis and other reputable brand with the same featue of a wi-fi5 802.11b 22 mbps(cost about $ 90 dllars for both of them). do i really need to buy all of these?
1.) router
2.) wireless access point
3.) network card

or just the router and card /// or ap and a card?



thanks again:D

[jatkins679]

Originally posted by ponzy
do i really need to buy all of these?
1.) router
2.) wireless access point
3.) network card

or just the router and card /// or ap and a card?

OK, let's back up here. If all you want to do is have your one computer on your WLAN, then any plain old AP will do. If all you want to do is to keep adding wireless computers to your WLAN, then this will also work (all you need is an AP that doles out IP addresses via DHCP, which I believe all of them do nowadays).

If you want to have printer access wirelessly from your computer, you need an AP that has an integrated print server.

If you want to add wired computers to your network or so that they have access to the internet, you need an AP that also includes a wired switch. These APs have physical ports on the them that accept Ethernet cables. Many APs nowadays come with such ports. They are normally just a nominal additional cost over models without them; so it makes sense to buy one.

You of course also need a wireless card for each computer that you want to network wirelessly, too.

Both the items you want to buy will work for what you want to do EXCEPT that the 614 doesn't come appear to come with a printer server. So if you want to print, you're going to have to run printer cabling from your computer to the printer directly. You don't want to have to do that. With Windows, you really need to shut down your computer to connect a printer, which is a hassle when you just want to print a page or something. Plus the cabling itself kind of defeats the point of being able to roam around the house with the laptop.

Either way, I would suggest that if you can you step up to an AP with the wired switch feature. If you in the future want to add, say, a desktop computer nearby the AP, you won't have to buy another wireless card for it, but rather just run an Ethernet cable to it. Or if you decide in the future to buy a printer with Ethernet connectivity, you can just use cheaper Ethernet cable and not much more expensive (and much thicker) printer cable.

[a2rob]

I want to network 2 computers and a laptop. What exactly do I need? Do I need to buy an adapter for the main computer that I presently have my DSL connection with?

Cable/DSL router x1
USB adapter x2
PMCIA card x1
The distance to all of this is less than 100 feet. Do I really need an access point?
I did an search on google for getting started and several sites included AP's and several did not in their diagrahms.


Originally posted by jatkins679
OK, let's back up here. If all you want to do is have your one computer on your WLAN, then any plain old AP will do. If all you want to do is to keep adding wireless computers to your WLAN, then this will also work (all you need is an AP that doles out IP addresses via DHCP, which I believe all of them do nowadays).

If you want to have printer access wirelessly from your computer, you need an AP that has an integrated print server.

If you want to add wired computers to your network or so that they have access to the internet, you need an AP that also includes a wired switch. These APs have physical ports on the them that accept Ethernet cables. Many APs nowadays come with such ports. They are normally just a nominal additional cost over models without them; so it makes sense to buy one.

You of course also need a wireless card for each computer that you want to network wirelessly, too.

Both the items you want to buy will work for what you want to do EXCEPT that the 614 doesn't come appear to come with a printer server. So if you want to print, you're going to have to run printer cabling from your computer to the printer directly. You don't want to have to do that. With Windows, you really need to shut down your computer to connect a printer, which is a hassle when you just want to print a page or something. Plus the cabling itself kind of defeats the point of being able to roam around the house with the laptop.

Either way, I would suggest that if you can you step up to an AP with the wired switch feature. If you in the future want to add, say, a desktop computer nearby the AP, you won't have to buy another wireless card for it, but rather just run an Ethernet cable to it. Or if you decide in the future to buy a printer with Ethernet connectivity, you can just use cheaper Ethernet cable and not much more expensive (and much thicker) printer cable.

[jatkins679]

Originally posted by a2rob
I want to network 2 computers and a laptop. What exactly do I need? Do I need to buy an adapter for the main computer that I presently have my DSL connection with?

Cable/DSL router x1
USB adapter x2
PMCIA card x1
The distance to all of this is less than 100 feet. Do I really need an access point?
I did an search on google for getting started and several sites included AP's and several did not in their diagrahms.

Let's get some terminology clarified here. You have a cable/DSL modem? Because there really is no such thing as a 'cable router' or 'DSL router', per se. A router is a router is a router, but it is different from a cable/DSL modem. It's important because if you already have a plain old router (along with a cable/DSL modem), then it changes what you might want/need for your WLAN.

You say you already have two USB WLAN adapters and a WLAN PCMCIA card. So each of your computers has a WLAN interface already? Is so, why would you want to buy another USB adapter?

[a2rob]

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
The only thing I have at this point is an Dell inspiron notebook 5100 series and two desktop computers, one of these has the dsl moden connectecd the others do not.
What do I need to purchase to have wireless on all computers. the 2 desktops are located less than 100 feet from one another.
Thanks for your assistance.




Originally posted by jatkins679
Let's get some terminology clarified here. You have a cable/DSL modem? Because there really is no such thing as a 'cable router' or 'DSL router', per se. A router is a router is a router, but it is different from a cable/DSL modem. It's important because if you already have a plain old router (along with a cable/DSL modem), then it changes what you might want/need for your WLAN.

You say you already have two USB WLAN adapters and a WLAN PCMCIA card. So each of your computers has a WLAN interface already? Is so, why would you want to buy another USB adapter?

[jatkins679]

Originally posted by a2rob
The only thing I have at this point is an Dell inspiron notebook 5100 series and two desktop computers, one of these has the dsl moden connectecd the others do not.
What do I need to purchase to have wireless on all computers. the 2 desktops are located less than 100 feet from one another.

You have two routes: ad hoc-mode networking or infrastructure-mode networking.

If you buy an adapter (USB or PCMCIA) for each of your machines and that's it, you can run in ad hoc mode. That is where there is no central access point (AP) through which all communication has to traverse and instead each wireless device/client communicates directly with each other. This would be the least expensive way to network your machines together and so they each also have internet access through your DSL modem.

There really are two problems with this arrangement: security and always-on problems. Ad hoc WLANs are inherently insecure and just a really, really, really bad idea to be running unless you have a very good reason to be doing it. It's every easy for a rogue client to add itself to the network and thus have access to your whole network and every machine on it. Not good.

Also, the computer to which your DSL modem is attached has to remain on for your other computers to have internet access. This isn't always possible or desirable. If you're running Windows, then internet connection sharing makes it easy to share the DSL connection this way. But if you're running Linux, it might get pretty messy.

Running in infrastructure mode means that all WLAN traffic traverses the AP and clients cannot communicate directly with each other. This is much, much, much more secure and also gives you more options in increasing your WLAN's security. This is really the way to go.

Of course infrastructure costs more: you have to buy an AP to use. That can be an extra $40-100 or more, depending on how many bells and whistles you want.

But one advantage also includes that you don't need to keep one or any of your clients on to gain internet access since you connect the DSL modem up to your AP and both always remain on (if you want). Another is of course the aforementioned security.

Distance between your clients in infrastructure mode isn't important but it is in ad hoc. In infrastructure, the distance between a client and the AP is important. And while distance is a factor, so is what's between. Walls, glass, other RF radiators all can make for less throughput and a shakier connection.

Unfortunately, unless you shell out for a wireless survey, you will not know if it'll all work until you get it up and running. So I would strongly suggest that you buy your WLAN gear locally from a retailer with a liberal return policy. And make sure all your WLAN gear is made by the same manufacturer. All WiFi gear is supposed to work together and all that. But it isn't always true. Just better to avoid all that and buy the same brand.

[ponzy]

wazz up jatkins, thanks for the help man..

i m currently inquiring on the ap you've specified ap with print server and a wired switch. what is basically the difference with ap with that of a router.it's advatanges with the other.? does the ap also has a 4 port (wan,wlan etc.)? can i connect the dsl modem to ap then using a network buscard i can connect to the internet wirelessly?

can you nme some branded products for the ap. thanks

[ponzy]

hi i cant find an ap with wired switch and print server for 100 - 120 bucks could you give me some produts for that price. thank you

[a2rob]

For the detail clarification!
So, all I need is this: http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=975396
plus 2 usb adapters and the PMCIA card for the notebook?
Wow thought I was going to have to spend more money for a router.
Yes I read from previous post here that all gear should be made by the same manufactor. Would it be advisable to buy an PMCIA card that supports all, a/b/g.? Netgear has this configuration fairly cheap.


Originally posted by jatkins679
You have two routes: ad hoc-mode networking or infrastructure-mode networking.

If you buy an adapter (USB or PCMCIA) for each of your machines and that's it, you can run in ad hoc mode. That is where there is no central access point (AP) through which all communication has to traverse and instead each wireless device/client communicates directly with each other. This would be the least expensive way to network your machines together and so they each also have internet access through your DSL modem.

There really are two problems with this arrangement: security and always-on problems. Ad hoc WLANs are inherently insecure and just a really, really, really bad idea to be running unless you have a very good reason to be doing it. It's every easy for a rogue client to add itself to the network and thus have access to your whole network and every machine on it. Not good.

Also, the computer to which your DSL modem is attached has to remain on for your other computers to have internet access. This isn't always possible or desirable. If you're running Windows, then internet connection sharing makes it easy to share the DSL connection this way. But if you're running Linux, it might get pretty messy.

Running in infrastructure mode means that all WLAN traffic traverses the AP and clients cannot communicate directly with each other. This is much, much, much more secure and also gives you more options in increasing your WLAN's security. This is really the way to go.

Of course infrastructure costs more: you have to buy an AP to use. That can be an extra $40-100 or more, depending on how many bells and whistles you want.

But one advantage also includes that you don't need to keep one or any of your clients on to gain internet access since you connect the DSL modem up to your AP and both always remain on (if you want). Another is of course the aforementioned security.

Distance between your clients in infrastructure mode isn't important but it is in ad hoc. In infrastructure, the distance between a client and the AP is important. And while distance is a factor, so is what's between. Walls, glass, other RF radiators all can make for less throughput and a shakier connection.

Unfortunately, unless you shell out for a wireless survey, you will not know if it'll all work until you get it up and running. So I would strongly suggest that you buy your WLAN gear locally from a retailer with a liberal return policy. And make sure all your WLAN gear is made by the same manufacturer. All WiFi gear is supposed to work together and all that. But it isn't always true. Just better to avoid all that and buy the same brand. :)

[jimmyjam]

Originally posted by jatkins679
Let's get some terminology clarified here. You have a cable/DSL modem? Because there really is no such thing as a 'cable router' or 'DSL router', per se. A router is a router is a router, but it is different from a cable/DSL modem.

Just thought I'd note, there is such a thing as integrated modem/routers. Zyxel has been making dsl routers for years now. I think I might have seen a cablemodem/router recently also.

[jatkins679]

Originally posted by a2rob
For the detail clarification!
So, all I need is this: http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=975396
plus 2 usb adapters and the PMCIA card for the notebook?
Wow thought I was going to have to spend more money for a router.
Yes I read from previous post here that all gear should be made by the same manufactor. Would it be advisable to buy an PMCIA card that supports all, a/b/g.? Netgear has this configuration fairly cheap.

You can use that product, yes. Remember, though: it appears to have neither a print server nor a wired switch (I didn't read the ad all that closely, though). So if you want to print, you'll have to make sure that your printer is attached to one of your WLAN machines and that you can share it through that machine.

And no wired switch means that you all your networked computers will have to attach wirelessly. This might not be an issue now. But if in the future you want to have a desktop nearby the AP and simply want to run Ethernet cable between the two, you can't. You'll have to get a new AP with integrated wired switch or add a wired router in between your AP and your internet connection.

With segues into a good point: a wireless access point (AP for short) is not a 'router', per se. It's kinda important to keep the terminology straight. An AP is technically a switch (since all the WLAN clients have to be on the same subnet/network). But when you say 'router', people immediately think wired router, cheapo on up through the most expensive Cisco box. It's not a big deal here, but it may very well cause confusion if you don't use the correct terminology. Not a big deal, just something to keep in mind as you go along....

I would generally advise people to not go with the combo (a+b, a+g, a/b/g) cards unless they already have the corresponding equipment. Hardware prices always come down. Plus since 802.11g was just officially ratified, I'd wait to let the second versions of firmware come out that addresses all the bugs and whatnot anyway.

Regardless, most SOHO WLAN users simply don't need anything faster than 11b for the forseeable future anyway. The fastest home DSL/cable internet connection is still slower than 1mb/s, which is the minimum throughput you need to have a WLAN connection anyway. So unless you are trading really huge files back and forth quite often, I don't see any real need for most SOHO WLANs to need 802.11g right now. Maybe in the future, but again hardware prices will also come down over time, too.

[a2rob]

Thanks again for all of your help. Once the hurricane passes through I am heading into Corpus Christi to purchase some equipment.



Originally posted by jatkins679
You can use that product, yes. Remember, though: it appears to have neither a print server nor a wired switch (I didn't read the ad all that closely, though). So if you want to print, you'll have to make sure that your printer is attached to one of your WLAN machines and that you can share it through that machine.

And no wired switch means that you all your networked computers will have to attach wirelessly. This might not be an issue now. But if in the future you want to have a desktop nearby the AP and simply want to run Ethernet cable between the two, you can't. You'll have to get a new AP with integrated wired switch or add a wired router in between your AP and your internet connection.

With segues into a good point: a wireless access point (AP for short) is not a 'router', per se. It's kinda important to keep the terminology straight. An AP is technically a switch (since all the WLAN clients have to be on the same subnet/network). But when you say 'router', people immediately think wired router, cheapo on up through the most expensive Cisco box. It's not a big deal here, but it may very well cause confusion if you don't use the correct terminology. Not a big deal, just something to keep in mind as you go along....

I would generally advise people to not go with the combo (a+b, a+g, a/b/g) cards unless they already have the corresponding equipment. Hardware prices always come down. Plus since 802.11g was just officially ratified, I'd wait to let the second versions of firmware come out that addresses all the bugs and whatnot anyway.

Regardless, most SOHO WLAN users simply don't need anything faster than 11b for the forseeable future anyway. The fastest home DSL/cable internet connection is still slower than 1mb/s, which is the minimum throughput you need to have a WLAN connection anyway. So unless you are trading really huge files back and forth quite often, I don't see any real need for most SOHO WLANs to need 802.11g right now. Maybe in the future, but again hardware prices will also come down over time, too.

[chevron-uk]

just thought I'd ask if it is a USB printer, if yes why not just get a USB wireless adapter, I think linksys do one but I'm sure there are others about. Just thought this might simplify things a bit, and get rid of the need for cable.

[jatkins679]

Originally posted by chevron-uk
just thought I'd ask if it is a USB printer, if yes why not just get a USB wireless adapter, I think linksys do one but I'm sure there are others about. Just thought this might simplify things a bit, and get rid of the need for cable.

I don't think that's going to work. The universal connector of the USB adapter goes into the client device, which isn't the end that the printer would accept.

If the printer has Ethernet connectivity, there are 802.11b adapters for that. But if the printer only has USB connectivity, then that's not going to work.

[ponzy]

hi i guess i just f@#$#% up on my first trial with wireless network. i got my dl-714p+ and dl-650+ ive succesfully installed it but just found out the reason why cant i make an internet connection with my laptop was DLink is not compatible with my ISP (A*L)... so beginners should ask their isp first on compatibiity of hardware they're going to use, just a thought of a reminder.....

now im working on researching,..... again... on a proper efficient network gadget......router and card
(for A*L)ISP i looked on actiontec are there anyone here who could enlighten me about the product bec im a having a second thoght bec its a little bit pricey for a Wi-Fi 11Mbps on its category, can someone here advice mo on prodects website regarding networks? thanks .............and jatkins thanks

[jatkins679]

Originally posted by ponzy
hi i guess i just f@#$#% up on my first trial with wireless network. i got my dl-714p+ and dl-650+ ive succesfully installed it but just found out the reason why cant i make an internet connection with my laptop was DLink is not compatible with my ISP (A*L)... so beginners should ask their isp first on compatibiity of hardware they're going to use, just a thought of a reminder.....

thanks .............and jatkins thanks

My pleasure....

Geez, I'm sorry to hear you're having problems with AO-Hell. Hmmmm... Do you have a broadband connection or dial-up with that? What do they recommend that you buy/use for your WLAN?

Please let us know what happens with them. I for one would be interested to know for future reference.

Best wishes.